Five Flew Over the Belegaer

[huinare]

For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had needs to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly.
- UT, "The Istari"

I've been starting to ponder the ramifications of this for my fannish conceptions of the continuity of an Ainu personality.  "My" Ainur could not suffer memory loss or dilution, unless chained to a physical brain which has been conditioned to forget or to remember less.  This leads me to patently creepy conclusions. 

Comments

[keiliss.livejournal.com]

I've read that before without thinking about it. Creepy isn't the word. That's mind control.....

I cannot see your Istari tolerating this for a second.

[huinare.livejournal.com]

The passage is vague enough that people who don't have my particular ideas about the nature of Ainur and consciousness could probably find a more sympathetic interpretation of it.

My headcanon has the Valar insisting upon these measures partly in a classically misguided attempt to keep the Istari from hubris, and partly so that if they do get captured by the dark powers while in M-e not as much intelligence about recent Ainu/Vala activity can be got out of them. Can't give away what you don't remember. And yes, tackling this in a story would be tricky because sufficient motive for the Istari to agree to all these indignities will have to be portrayed.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

I have thought about this, though not recently - perhaps like adjusting to a sort of disability, or maybe like adjusting your mind to accept severe restrictions, as an astronaut or a submariner might do? Shutting down parts of yourself in order to fit into a confined space...

I wonder also if language has anything to do with it, in the sense that language is supposed to dictate, to some extent, how people think and react? A person that can sing in the Ainulindalë seems like he should be a different person to someone whose expression is tied down into the languages of Middle-earth?

I'm not sure if the yearning is necessarily a scary 'implanted by external forces' thing, as it is with the Elves. You'd think they would naturally be homesick, it seems like the obvious emotion, even if they could nto remember quite what for...

Intriguing basis for story!

[huinare.livejournal.com]

Ooh, love your thoughts on language. That sort of thing, involving the interplay of language and cognition, is actually very close to my heart and has influenced my course of study. Indeed I do see a metaphysical being like a Maia as being limited and changed by prolonged habitation of an earthly form. The Ainulindalë is especially interesting in that I see it as something more impressive than music as we'd define it, something really quite incomprehensible once a being is bound up in time and space.

The yearning for the Blessed Realm I would see as a natural result, yeah, not something inflicted on them. I suspect J.R.R.T.'s thoughts might also relate to a sort of sacred quality of Aman, but I think homesickness or missing friends and greater powers would be sufficient on its own.